Not really “powertripping”. Just pathetic. Consider this a notice to avoid feddit.org… I’ve unsubbed and blocked the instance.
We can’t dehumanize fascists for their choice to dehumanize everyone for things outside their control though, because that would be mean, and hurt their sociopath feefees!
Europe stool idly by throughout the 1930’s “tolerating” fascism, and the Nazi’s killed over 100 million people. Don’t make the same mistake as the radical centrists of history. Fascists will not afford you the same tolerance or courtesy.
Nazis are shitbags, yes, but like, calm down a bit. Don’t stoop down to their level.
and this idiot take is how you end up with a Nazi problem
You don’t prevent a Nazi problem by playing their game of hate. It’s a game they will always win. By saying shit like that, all you’re doing is emboldening the hardliners and giving them ammunition, while reconfirming those doubting their beliefs.
Yes when Nazis are rounding people up simply turn the other minority
Sweet mother of an appeal to extremes. How do you go from “don’t use Nazi’s playbook” to “do nothing while Nazis are committing an ethnic cleansing”?
Aren’t they already commiting an ethnic cleansing?
If you don’t believe in human rights for Nazis, you don’t believe in universal human rights.
Right to life is a the most basic one.
Arguments about limiting free speech is on a different level.
Fascists not caring about free speech, but exploiting it in bad faith, is the core of the argument and very valid.
A three day ban is fine for something like this.
Nazis themselves do not believe in the right to life. They are like cockroaches. They cannot be allowed to spread.
I believe the death penalty is immoral because I don’t believe there is such a thing as an act so heinous that it would be moral to kill them after the fact.
There is room in my moral framework for killing in self defense or defense of others, but I leave that to require some kind of immediacy. And I think enemy combatants in a hot war are fair game, too, but that requires a hot war as a precondition, and I don’t think we’re there right now.
Then you will only ever be in a position to defend yourself from Nazis.
I am also opposed to the death penalty, but I understand that there are circumstances where practicality overrides morality. Stopping the spread of Nazis is just such a circumstance.
cockroaches
You are using literal Nazi rhetoric. You have no moral standing.
Thank you for openly admitting that you cannot tell the difference between Nazism and opposition to Nazism. At least you admit it.
You seem to be completely bereft of self awareness. It’s remarkable really.
Y’all would’ve let the Nazis rampage across Europe to ‘not stoop to their level.’ I know for a fact, because you’re doing it now.
And the Germans kill the Jews and the Jews kill the Arabs and Arabs kill the hostages and THAAAAAAATT is the news
Is it any wonder
That the monkey’s confused?
And so on
By Roger Waters
Actually, this was a while ago, and there are a couple more layers to the cycle now, if you know where to look. Arabs killings Kurds, Kurds killing Turks. Some of the newer nodes are still forming and may or may not grow large, but they’re there.
Roger Waters
You are really citing this notorious antisemite?
Don’t make us laugh, you’re a smart kid
Time is linear, memory’s a stranger, history is for fools
Man is a tool
In the hands of the Great God Almighty…
So they gave him command of a nuclear submarine
And sent him off
In search of the Garden of Eden
“The Final Cut” is quite good, too. It’s a big song about what war does. There is stuff that will break your heart.
“The Ballad of Bill Hubbard”
“The Gunner’s Dream”
“Two Suns in the Sunset”
“Watching TV”
“Home”
Pink Floyd singer-guitarist David Gilmour and his wife, Polly Samson, who wrote lyrics for the band’s later songs, are not pulling any punches about Roger Waters, whose stances on Israel, Ukraine and Russia have alarmed many of the band’s followers in recent years. On social media, Samson called Waters “rotten to your antisemitic core” and “a Putin apologist,” among other things — and Gilmour emphatically cosigned his spouse’s statement, writing: “Every word demonstrably true.”
Find better artists to listen to.
If we could climb the highest steeple
And then look down at all the people
And shoot the ones not wholly good,
As we, like noble shooters, should
Why then there’d be an only worry:
Who’s be left to bury
Us?
-Walt Kelly
For some context, this person is a Zionist, and with the genocide in Palestine, it’s not surprising that they would have nazi sympathies.
Of course the antisemites show up right away to spread their hate.
I have protested against and fought Nazis with my own fists since I was 16.
Are you claiming that a person protesting against Israeli indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinian men, women and children must be an antisemite?
No. What are you talking about?
The only thing he did was make an equivalence between Nazis snd Zionism. That comparison itself is already tantamount to Holocaust denial and thus antisemitic.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self determination. Denying the Jewish people this human right is antisemitic.
Zionism is nationalism. Mearly calling it a right to self-determination is disengenious.
On the other hand I agree that implying an equality between Zionism and Nazism (as in the facist ideoligy) downplays the severity of facism and the Holocaust in particular.
Yes, Zionism is Jewish nationalism, similar to Polish, Greek, Kurdish nationalism.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self determination
May have been in XIX or in the first half of XX century. At the moment it is a deeply racist movement denying Palestinians the same rights Jews enjoy.
Also Israeli government, supported by Zionist parties is definitely including nazis. So while I don’t argue that zionism is equivalent to nazism I can see where he was coming from.
You are misrepresenting Zionism. It has always had different ideological strains.
If you believe in a two state solution, congratulations you are a Zionist.
I can see where he was coming
Demonization, delegitimization, antisemitism.
Demonization, delegitimization, antisemitism
Stop talking rubbish. Criticism of Israel and/or zionism is not antisemitic.
“Nazism is the right of the Aryan race to self determination. Denying the Aryan race this human right is anti-German bigotry”
That’s disgusting antisemitic and you know it.
Disliking Nazis is anti-German bigotry and you know it. Being anti-genocide is only motivated by hating the people doing the genocide and ethno-nationalism.
Your denial of the Jewishness of all those people who are Jews and are against Zionism or simply do not agree that Zionism represents them, is the true antisemitism here.
It’s not up to you and it’s not up to Zionists to decide that Zionism represents all Jews, it’s up to all Jews and a lot of them think Zionism doesn’t represent them, hence “Zionism” is not at all equivalent to “Jew” and hence anti-Zionism is not at all equivalent to antisemitic.
The previous poster’s metaphor is spot on illustrating your inherent anti-semitism in how you defend your beloved flavour of ethno-Fascist political ideology: Zionists claim that they represent an entire ethnicity - even against statements of members of that ethnicity that they do not - and then claim that criticism of Zionism is actually an attack on the ethnicity, going so far as explicitly calling actual Jews who are critical of Zionism “anti-semites”, all of which is exactly as the Nazis did using “the Arian Race” (including the detail of accusing members of the Arian Race of being “against the Arian Race” or “not real Arians” when they voiced opinions critical of Nazism) which is why the previous poster’s metaphor was perfect - how you and your ideological brothers position yourselves in relation to the Jewish People and use that self-proclaimed relation in your “arguments” is straight out of a Himmler manual on Propaganda.
You’re the only Racist in this room and by making arguments in the same style as Nazi Propaganda you out yourself as a rabid, Nazi-style kind of Racist.
Well, yeah. We don’t condone murdering murderers, either.
Depends on the murderer. Dexter has great ratings because people do in fact support murder of people who kill and aren’t being held accountable, at least in theory.
At least in fiction. Big difference.
Luigi seems to have a lot of support as well. In reality.
I think the key difference is that no one was bringing Brian Thompson to justice.
The nature of humans is that they seek justice for themselves. Congress and the courts are, in theory, an uneasy compromise to offer people justice in exchange for demanding that they don’t go out and make justice for themselves. Because we’ve seen where that leads, and it sure isn’t good.
You can believe in the rule of law and still think Brian Thompson deserved to die. Because by any legal standard, he committed more homicides than pretty much everyone on death row. And yet, somehow, our system is so twisted up that it is fine. Everything Thompson did was perfectly legal. Just like slavery, segregation, and the holocaust.
I don’t think killing CEOs at random is a route to any good thing. Bringing random violence into the political equation serves one side only, and it is not ours. But it is perfectly consistent to condemn murder and still support Luigi, in reality.
legal […] like the holocaust.
Funnily, German law did not change during the holocaust, and Germany still convicts people for being accessories to murder in concentration camps under the laws of the 1940s.
If Hitler was assassinated before he started the war, millions wouldn’t die.
The same if he had been detained.
Not really. He was in charge of Germany, there was no chance for him being detained. Draw the conclusions yourself.
If Hitler had been assassinated right before the war, it might have been infinitely worse.
The Nazis weren’t predicated solely on Hitler. He actually was meant to be just a speechmaker while the smarter people made all the important decisions, because he was kind of an aggressive moron. Things got out of hand, though, and he was able to take over and to a large extent fuck everything up. A few of the attempts on his life were from other committed Nazis of a pretty high rank. The allies thought about trying to assassinate him, but decided ultimately that it was way better for the war effort if he was in charge.
I don’t think the movement would have petered out without Hitler and constitutional order restored. Not by 1939. They might not have exterminated the Jews quite so completely, but they might have, and they also might have stayed allied with the Soviets and won the war in spades. I think one of the few saving graces about the way it all went down was that Hitler was in charge, fucking everything up.
The parallels to Trump are uncanny.
Not by 1939. They might not have exterminated the Jews quite so completely,
You don’t have a clue.
While the nazis obviously didn’t rely solely on Hitler, in 1939 holocaust plans weren’t even drafted.
Plus, we are not in 1939 quite YET. If Hitler was killed after he came to power, war wouldn’t even start.
The parallels to Trump are uncanny.
Of course sweetie. Keep telling yourself that until it is too late.
I’m not sure if you are being condescending because you think you are right, or for some other reason. I wasn’t even saying whatever you thought I was saying about 1939. You also have some of your history wrong.
The camp system started instantly after Hitler came to power, as did sterilizations and abortions. Things ramped up from there. Systematic mass killing of Jews started in 1941, but it wasn’t something that was off the table until “plans were drafted” to do something that they hadn’t been ramping up towards. The plans that they drafted were systematic expansions of what had already been happening in a less organized fashion for years.
Hitler didn’t invent the idea of starting a war with all of the rest of Europe. He picked it up, along with a lot of other Geopolitik ideas, apparently from Karl Haushofer. That was back in the days when Hitler wasn’t unequivocally in charge or even close to. How things would have played out without Hitler at the helm is totally uncertain of course, but plenty of other people had the ideas that became World War 2, and they appeared in Hitler’s works all of a sudden in 1923 when he picked them up from Haushofer at the same time Hess and Ribbentrop did.
It’s possible that if he was killed in 1933 that we wouldn’t have had the big war, just internal misery everlasting within Germany’s borders or a ways beyond them. Like I say, it’s also possible that the Nazi operation would have played out the same but been far more effective, if a little slower and less stylish without Hitler’s high-octane speeches.
We are clearly in early 1933 right now. Ten metaphorical days away from the Reichstag Fire, a little more than a month from the Enabling Act. Of course, we’re not bound for things to play out in exactly the same fashion, but that’s where we are on the timeline.
Of course sweetie. Keep telling yourself that until it is too late.
Not even sure what to make of this.
Systematic mass killing of Jews started in 1941, but it wasn’t something that was off the table until “plans were drafted” to do something that they hadn’t been ramping up towards
I wasn’t planning to have historical debate here but you are clearly misinforming anyone who reads your comments.
“Final solution” — mass murder — wasn’t planned until 1941 and in 1940 Nazis were still toying with the idea of mass deportations to Madagascar instead.
Just remind me, what is Trump trying to do at the moment?
Not even sure what to make of this.
Go figure.
Holocaust as a mass murder wasn’t planned until 1941
400,000 people were sterilized in 1933. Gas vans were killing mental patients in 1939. The Einsatzgruppen were traveling with the army in 1939, shooting Jews en masse in some cases. “Aktion T4” was put into practice in 1940, also with mental patients. Eugenics scholars had been talking about exterminating those with inferior genes since 1920. The deportation to Madagascar was talked about under the assumption that the harsh conditions and lack of civilization would leave most of the Jews to die “naturally.” Deliberate starvation in the ghettos killed tens of thousands of Jews before a formalized “final solution” was planned for. And so on.
Not sure how you got that my “ramping up” description was misinforming people. That’s what happened. As much fun as this is, I have completed as much of this conversation as I want to have.
400,000 people were sterilized in 1933. (…)
Again, your point is? Mass murder of Jews wasn’t planned until 1941. In 1940 Nazis were planning mass deportations to Madagascar. These are facts, I am not sure what is you are trying to achieve here?
Furthermore, your comments only support my point as the goals escalate: Trump is attempting mass deportations now - like nazis were going to just before Final Solution
If someone was to kill Hitler, neither WW2 nor Final Solution would have happened.
feddit.org is a German hosted instance that has to abide by the German law. By that law, your comment falls into a grey-zone of legality. As much as I agree with you, they were right in removing your comment, as they are legally obligated to. They could get into trouble if they don’t.
To quote the feddit.org sidebar:
Content that is illegal in Germany, Austria or Switzerland will be deleted and can lead to an immediate ban of the account.
Can you quote an article of German law forbidding calling nazis (or any other violent political group) pieces of shit?
It is a genuine question - I am not familiar with German law.
Nothing easier than that: Art 130 StGB
Anyone who, in a manner likely to disturb the public peace,
1.
incites hatred against a national, racial, religious or ethnic group, against sections of the population or against an individual because of their membership of a designated group or a section of the population, incites violence or arbitrary measures, or
2.
attacks the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously denigrating or slandering a designated group, parts of the population or an individual because of their membership of a designated group or part of the population,The Post was in A Manner to disturb the public by being a public post. It attacks the human dignity by dehumanising a group based on their world view. Under current German law this is incitement to people.
Not that directly, but saying they have “zero worth” might be against GG Article 1
Human dignity is inviolable
Pretty sure dehumanizing can be prosecuted under this, even if its rather tame. Also there have been some laws over the last few years that criminalize violent speech on the internet and that give people the ability to report comments directly to agencies. These might make it quite dangerous for the instance to keep up these comments.
I assure you, German leftist often say way more intense stuff on a daily basis, but not on publicly hosted servers
Can you quote the actual article?
I did. That’s the first article of the Grundgesetz (Basic Law) of Germany
Constitution is not a criminal law so no. But someone else already quoted criminal law which at a very stretch may be applicable here.
This is true.
The first article of our constitution is like all of our criminal law packed into one sentence. Most of our criminal law is just specifying how violating the dignity of humans gets punished. So while in theory he was not wrong with that this is against our constitution this is not how a judge would argue.
Can you be less annoying? No one owes you anything here.
You are misrepresenting the facts here. Nobody said that calling Nazis pieces of shit is actionable under German law. That’s not the problem. The post specifically states that “Nazi lives don’t matter”, questioning a person’s right to life is dehumanizing and might very well break German law. I’m not a lawyer, so I’m not gonna quote specific case law but if I were an admin, I’d also would err on the side of caution here.
Can you be less annoying? No one owes you anything here.
Can you go and kindly shag yourself? No one asks you to answer here.
Furthermore, you don’t have a clue how logic works, do you? If someone claims the comment has been removed due to German law, it is on them to prove it.
I guess that’s a no
Well done, perfectly logical analysis of my last comment. Now try to apply the same to the entire thread.
Ah germs, I understand. Consistently on the wrong side of history. Can’t even mildly criticise genociders in that shithole.
In germany we say ‘heul leise’ and i think this is beautiful.
Hi, I happen to be a moderator on that community. I wouldn’t have banned you but I won’t put my partners’ decision under scrutiny if this is a temporal ban. If this ban is permanent, feel free to DM me, I’d like to review what happened here.
PS. Moderating communities is exhausting! And terribly difficult given my account is not on feddit.org
I’m going to assume this is a language thing. You really do sound like a nazi when saying “i wont put my partner’s decision under scrutiny” when the decision is to act like a nazi. You may want to reword or recend that comment.
I can see where he was coming
A three day ban is now apparently Nazi. This word has truly lost all meaning. You are lost ideologically.
One of the best things that happened in the 20th century was the firm reaffirmation, after the war was over, that Nazi lives do have value.
The allies would have been within every reasonable right to just string up the Nazi leadership like Mussolini, make a new treaty of Versailles, and mime tiny violins any time one of the citizens of Germany raised the alarm that their kids were starving. And, a lot of the people on the ground basically did exactly that. But the word from the top is: They are humans. They have rights.
The ones we think are guilty get lawyers and trials, no matter what we’re pretty sure they did. That’s what humans have to do for each other, in a just world. It doesn’t mean you don’t set things right, but you still give them human value and rights, even the worst, before you put them to death if that’s justice.
The whole roots of the war lay in misery and hate. What are we going to be reaping in 20 years if we just replant it all because it’s “what they deserve?” Let’s put an end to it.
It doesn’t mean we didn’t do terrible things in the war, or kill in self defense. Even kill whole cities in an instant, if you need to. But the killing isn’t the point. It’s just a protection, and it needs to end as soon as you can see a way to end it.
And then, back to human life and value. That is, in fact, what separates us from the Nazis, is that we’re not looking to throw it away.
The whole roots of the war lay in misery and hate. What are we going to be reaping in 20 years if we just replant it all because it’s “what they deserve?” Let’s put an end to it.
I really wanted you to be wrong, but you’re not, and that quote is the crux of the matter. I would just add we need to get really aggressive with re-education. I know you mentioned it elsewhere, but we need to be like dogs with t-bones, with it.
Can you give an example for implementing “aggressive reeducation”?
Regular, daily deprogramming with people trained. Aggressive daily therapy at not acting on hateful impulse. Actual critical thinking, critical reading, and logic classes, to start.
What happens if people don’t show up for classes?
Then they are segregated from society and will attend classes like people currently do.
Gulags are a terrible idea.
Consider this a notice to avoid feddit.org… I’ve unsubbed and blocked the instance.
… but that looks like a mod/comm ban, not an admin/instance ban?
You’re right. I scrolled through the instances top communities. Most seemed political, and are pretty small, so I just assumed it’s a propaganda mill. Might not be.
It’s not a propaganda mill, feddit.org is the biggest German instance (since feddit.de essentially shut down)
As they blocked feddit.org, they’re not gonna see your comment I’d assume
Pretty sure instance blocks only work on posts, not comments.
They don’t work on comments. I regularly see comments from .ml people even while having the instance blocked.
Classic right wing mindset requiring tolerance of intolerance.
From an anarchist/leftist perspective this is a clear case of PTB. But a milquetoast response to fascism is one of the identifying characteristics of liberalism (unfortunately), so I don’t think anyone will be surprised about this type of censorship on a mostly liberal server tbh.
My grandad who fought in WW2 used to say to me “You don’t speak to Nazis. You shoot Nazis”.
I may be less radical than that but I would gladly see all nazis and nazi apologists on compulsory re-education courses or in prisons.
Edit: I hope the OP don’t mind me using this post in my https://lemmy.world/c/opisafuckingidiot community with the explanation that this time it is a mod who is an idiot: https://lemmy.world/post/25616034
I am in the shoot them camp and got permabanned from reddit because I am vocal about it.
.ml 4 the win
Lol “dehumanization?”
You can’t dehumanify something that isn’t human in the first place and if you think for even one god damn second that Nazis are human, you are fucking stupid.
They are human.
Dehumanizing them is dangerous, because then you think “oh they’re not truly human, they’re monsters, not like us, right Mike?” And then your buddy Mike who you’ve known for years turns out to support Nazis. If you think that regular humans can’t be Nazis, then you risk not noticing it when the Nazi is standing right there and looks like you or me.
Nazis are not, nor ever have been, human.
Im going to get downvoted to hell for this.
Nazi’s are human. They are pieces of shit humans that need to not exist and i could punch without feeling bad, but they are humans none the less.
Yeah but they’re not human, though
world moment
E oops just noticed that instance is not actually world. My mistake
