• SmoothOperator@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I have. Let’s check. Can something that does not exist think?

    No

    Can something that thinks not exist?

    No

    Does thought therefore imply existence?

    Yes

    Does non-thought imply non-existence?

    No

    Makes sense. But if something does not exist in one moment, and that something then thinks in the next moment, has it gone from non-existence to existence?

    Yes

    So either it might be possible to think yourself into existence, or anything that thinks has always existed. Or the third option, you go from non-existence to existence through some other process than thinking, a process that enables you to think. But we cannot prove the existence of such a process.

    • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz
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      2 days ago

      Or… thinking is neurons and synapses and tiny bits of energy all zapping about insanely fast, but I’m just an unaccredited expert on the internet

      the definition of existence to me is just all of it, plus whatever I’m not aware of. Which might be quantifiable, but I doubt humans will ever know. And thinking is in there somehow, as a biological function

      • SmoothOperator@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I agree thinking is almost surely a biological process involving brains. But the exercise here is to try and make the simplest true statement we can about existence based on as few assumptions as possible.

        You know your senses can be deceived. You know your memories can be unreliable. You have no proof that anything or anyone exists which does not rely on your senses or memories.

        Except one thing. Your thoughts exist. That observation does not rely on any unreliable sources of information. It does not assume that your senses or memories are reasonable sources of facts.

        This is the statement by Descartes. It is not a particularly sensible worldview, or a better one than yours, but it’s an interesting philosophical exercise.

        Isn’t it, oh architect of all physics?

        Yes.

        • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz
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          2 days ago

          Thoughts are only informed by sensory input. Nothing there otherwise.

          But if Descartes is correct, thoughts exist before sensory input. What is he thinking about? He’s a mind without a brain.

          My own mental illness reminds me my mind is unreliable. Not some indivisible font of understanding. I mean I’m mostly there. The dreams are fantastic. It’s helpful to write things down, perhaps I should go full Memento and start tattoing facts on myself.