The CIO said ‘Why do we need a wiring closet, we’re a cloud first company’."
you have to laugh, because otherwise you’d cry
I’m currently working with a team of a few seniors and the rest mid-levels. I’ve helped get a few juniors hired but they’ve buckled under the pressure after 6 months.
They studied development at school and did great with their classwork but perhaps they thought they knew a lot and ended up realizing that they barely scratched the surface.
Though not required to learn deeper aspects of development, having a team, partner or mentor goes a heck of a long way. It’s like learning the piano. You can hit all the right notes but it doesn’t mean you have musicality.
I’m also looking forward to working a couple of days a week, training and coaching young developers.
This has always been the case, but in the US, basically no tech employers actually treat their junior employees as apprentices, they treat them as temporary contractors, and are thus unable to maintain any consistent kind of institutional knowledge, which then reinforces the loop of relying for contractors for everything a small level of hierarchical steps under C Suite.
They’ve basically brought over the broken ladder of the management track, over to the technical track of increased technical expertise (without necessarily increasing management/administrative responsibilities).
Currently, each generation of executives doesn’t come from within the company. There’s no simple path from mail room to executive anymore. Now, you have to leave the company to go get an MBA, then get hired by a consulting firm, then consult with that company as a client, before you’re on track to make senior management at the company.
If the technical track is going this way, too, then these companies are going to become more brittle, and the current generation of entry level workers are going to hit a lot more career dead ends. It’s bad for everyone.
Currently, each generation of executives doesn’t come from within the company.
This in particular I find to be just the most astonishingly duplicitous, completely full of shit thing about American Tech Corps.
They are masters of lying to you and telling you that if you work hard, perform well, blah blah, you’ll adcance through the ranks.
All outward oriented ‘how to be a good employee’ type media propaganda says you need to be loyal and stop job hopping.
All these motherfuckers job hop all the fucking time and they know they do!
EDIT: After a decade in the tech industry, I got assaulted and just give off of disability now, basically in poverty.
There is literally no amount of money you could pay me (lets be real, promise to pay me and then not actually pay me that much) to get back into the tech industry.
My QoL is 100,000x improved not having to deal with the constant deceptive office politics, utterly incompetent managers and useless projects.
You’re 100% right about ‘what even is a career path’.
They don’t exist.
Barring super basic stuff like an A* or whatever to be a basic network techy, certs are required or desired certs are constantly changing, as are required skillsets and experience in general.
None of the HR people that write job descriptions have any clue what the words theyre using mean.
They kept inflating ‘required years working with X program or language’, and everyone just started lying on all their resumes.
The hiring process is a theatre of the absurd.
Over 15 years ago I proposed to a number of universities what could best be described as an apprentice program. Our clients were interested but because there was no defined income stream to the university (they wanted us to pay them to allow us to teach their soon to be graduates) nobody bit. We have been sounding the alarm about Gen-X retiring for years, but nobody wants to hear it. Now a lot of my colleagues are starting to leave the sector or move out of the US to and scale down their hours. Covering their roles is going to be a struggle.
One annoying thing I’ve noticed about certifications is that you have to get them for certain jobs but only use 20-30% of the subject matter you have to study in order to obtain them for the actual job…
As a hiring manager, I don’t give a shit about certs. AWS certs, for example, serve primarily as marketing material and free money. Soft skill certs like agile methodology (of which I have several) are equally bullshit in that everything is a pattern not a prescription yet many people miss that and shoot their teams in the foot. There are some security certs I do value, such as CISSP, because they can be required for certain industries and actually do carry some gravitas. Even those, though, aren’t necessarily valuable for the things I actually need my security folks to do.
I’d say the market is maybe 30/70 split with folks like me and ATS or idiot hiring managers thinking your ability to memorize the specific GCP settings no one uses will actually make you understand why prod blew up. I refuse to get any; I actively support my team getting them as long as they know what they’re getting into.
Certifications are there to assure the employer that A) you know something B) you are able to be trained. The reason you use 20-30% is because few jobs on the planet require you to know everything. The certification assures that you are at least well read on whatever 20-30% is thrown your way.
Literally the only thing i really used on a regular basis from Sec+, is extremely basic PKI (private/public keys). I got it to meet 8570 requirements.
I learned far more useful skills on the job.
What you mean with things that advance continually but also every business uses a different solution you can’t expect someone who have a perfect understanding of 6976 different possible solutions used coming out of college? What are we even teaching these kids if not every possible current and legacy software of any possible IT application and the differences between each version of each. Geez.
Token ring networks is what they spent quite a bit of time teaching us about, in 2016. Perhaps fair enough to mention it as a thing that existed but they taught this stuff to us like it was current.
That’s the biggest problem with learning tech from a college: developing, vetting, publishing, and adopting curriculum all take a good chunk of time. More time than it takes for new tech to arise.
It’s not hard to see going to trainings/expos/etc. on new/current/upcoming tech while working at a business is going to be a lot more useful than learning 5-20 year old tech in college.
Now, I’m mostly just assuming things as I did not go to college for tech, but I work in education so I know how things typically go.
This is exactly why I dropped out of college for computer science when I got my first IT job. 30 years later and I haven’t regretted it yet.
I had a similar experience where we had an entire class for Novell Directory Services. The reason our teacher gave for keeping the class in the curriculum? We MAY run into it in the workforce.
And unions
This is sort of how I got my start as a network engineer in the US, a dozen or so years ago.
There was a large skills gap in the area (still is, IMO)…so the company started hiring people that had no training but had a good technical aptitude with the intent to train them directly.
I know a lot of really great engineers that got their start through that program.
The company has since been bought, and bought again. We’ve all mostly scattered to the wind. But I still run into some of them every now and then as vendors for my current employer…our current VoIP consultant came from that program, and honestly I don’t know anybody who knows IP Telephony better than him.
This is news? What are they doing, throwing juniors into server rooms and expect them to learn through looking at blinking lights?
Pretty much. If you can’t Google it you’re screwed in a lot of situations. Too many tenured IT folks have been through the forced self learning and insane hours figuring things out that they think training and documentation is not needed. I’ve definitely been there. In the late 90’s early 2000’s most orgs didn’t pay for IT shit so you just had to deal with it. It’s definitely better now but there are still people and companies that act like it’s 1999 still. I took over IT for an org a year ago that had their only IT employee die and they never recovered some of their data out of AWS because the dbag used personal accounts and didn’t document shit. This was a company with 500+ employees and that had 1 IT person. They also had a 2003 server that was implemented in 2005 that was never updated and was used in production until a month after I took the contract.
That is exactly what they’re doing buddy
Yes
That’s what they did to me 20-odd years ago. I did my best to train up the guys that came after me, but I am only one guy. I hope they’re not still doing that.
They are still doing that.
This is already literally how it works in Germany. You can also get in with a college/university degree, especially for software dev jobs, but nowadays it’s pretty unusual that people who enter the field just have no related education at all.
